Hunters and Game Lovers Special Report
Orogrande Wolf Slaughter 2008, Idaho
(pdf 4.5 mg)
orogrande-slaughter-2008.pdf
This 6×8 bull was killed a week ago up wolf creek which is 30 miles
out of Libby , MT.
Two wolves killed it, ate a bite or two of meat
and left, never did come back.
Pic # 032 shows where the bull had “hooked” a
wolf with his antlers and had thrown him out
into the snow.
A local logger saw blood and tracks on the road
on his way to a job and followed the blood to the
dead bull.
He fought hard but only two wolves can kill a
bull that’s in his prime.Goes to show you how bad ass wolves really are.
More proof that wolves do in fact kill for fun! If a person does this, it is known as poaching. Looks like wolves are poachers after all. Should we fine them and revoke their hunting and fishing privileges for three years? Probably more since this bull may fall in the category as a trophy class animal. 
Admin Note: But then so are they and the season will hopefully, soon be open.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Lewis Photographic Report of Elk in Idaho
We received these photos and report via email and felt it was important to publish the orginal email text. What follows is the orginal email and a small sample of some of the photos.
— begin email —These pictures are very gruesome, but I hope they circulate throughout the country…the most important thing to remember is the slaughter and brutal mutilation by wolves. While all animals in the wild must eat, look at how much of the animal is left- they are not hunting to eat, they are hunting to kill!!Here is photographic evidence of the slaughter of our wildlife that continues as a result of the out of control federal wolf “re-introduction” program. By the federal Fish & Wildlife Services’, (”FWS”) own count, there are now over six (6) times the number of wolves originally considered adequate (10 packs) for “delisting”.Politics and typical government stasis has interfered with “delisting.” The recently trumpeted delisting news was followed by the admission that the FWS administrative decision to delist will now be followed by a year of study. Then will begin the lawsuits already promise by the environmentalists that will hang it up in the courts for years.
The continued promises of delisting now convince only the gullible. The disaster will probably manifest itself in nature before the government can act. It appears that the problem is becoming a “hot potato” and the feds are now trying to get the state involved to share the blame and the costs.These photo’s were taken by Lewis Turcott. Lewis is a 69 year old retired man from Orofino, ID. He actually camped for weeks at a time during the winters to film the horrific predation taking place on the elk winter ranges. All the killing he filmed took place on the North Fork of the Clearwater River in North Central Idaho. The large cavities on the rear of the cow elk are where the fetus was removed. The photographer found and documented that the wolf always ate the fetus first and sometimes the cow was still found alive after the fetus was removed and eaten.Lewis also found that many elk were killed in surplus, or “Sport Killed”, and left to rot. During the winter when the elk are driven down low and concentrated along the river, they are easy prey and the wolves just keep killing both old and young.These photo’s were scanned in from the original photographs on 2-22-07 because Lewis only owned 35mm cameras. I’ve been after Lewis for months to allow me to scan his pictures but he was reluctant because he’s “loaned” many of them out before and never got them back.
I had Lewis stay at my side while I scanned away and he has his pictures back and the world can begin to see his work.
— end email —Click here for more photos from the Lewis Photographic Report.
Elk Lost to Mexican Gray Wolf
Photographic evidence is starting to roll in about the decimation of the elk herds in the Blue Range Wolf Recovery Area by the Mexican Gray Wolf.
This spike elk was killed by two wolves (F1016 and an un-collared male) on 3-12-07 at the entrance of the N bar ranch, you can see the hemorrhage and the canine marks on the skin . This was a healthy, young Bull Elk.
This spotted elk calf was killed by a wolf within 1/2 mile of a beef calf that was killed.
Note: no throat bite, this calf died a more painful death.
If you have photos of wildlife that has not been spree or surplus (sport killed), please do send us your photos and email us your story. If you request your name will be kept confidential.
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[…] is part 2 of the Lewis Photograhic Report. Please read part 1 which includes Lewis’ […]
People like you are such cruel idiots it makes me sick. If you’re hungry what do you do? Eat. If someone took away that food you go buy more or borrow some. Now if you were a wolf who was hungry, you’d eat. If you couldn’t find food, you have no choice but to borrow. Dude they are just big dogs (more beautiful tho) and they are going through though times now. They really don’t need stupid killers like you cutting them down even further. In a few decades these wonderful creatures might not be here anymore all because of murders like you and your lil hunting buddies.
Can I come over to your house and borrow your car. I will return it in the same condition that these wolves left the elk. Then again wolves do not borrow they take and waste.
How would you feel about a wolf borrowing a fetus out of your insides and leaving you to die? If you are a man think of them eating off your privates and living you to bleed out. This is what they are doing to momma cows. Dragging babies out while they are being born and then ripping off the milk bag. The elk photos of the fetus eaten out are pretty hard for anyone with any sensitivitiy to look at.
You have a very intresting use of the word borrow.
As a vegetarian I find it intresting your are so pro an animal that strips off meat while an animals is still alive and is noted for man eating.
Your idea of beauty is just odd to me. Puppies are cute but a wolf with teeth barred feeding or attacking your pet or beloved horse is just sickening to me.
Comment was split.
You said: “This is what they are doing to momma cows. Dragging babies out while they are being born and then ripping off the milk bag. The elk photos of the fetus eaten out are pretty hard for anyone with any sensitivitiy to look at.”
Oh so sensitive… then I shall not tell you what humans are doing to momma cows, or veal babies for that matter!
Y’know, those photos are not difficult for me to look at, and it isn’t because I am jaded. It is because I am not detached from nature and wildness. From the fact that life feeds on life, and that this is what meat looks like, comes from, when it is not in little packets of happy foam yellow. That this is what it takes to live.
You said: “Your idea of beauty is just odd to me. Puppies are cute but a wolf with teeth barred feeding or attacking your pet or beloved horse is just sickening to me.”
If you choose to live where wildness roams. If you are aware of the predators, then it is your responsibility to keep your non-native domestic pets safe. Allowing them to wander unsupervised is putting them and our native wildlife at risk. Keep your cats inside. Put your dogs on leashes, and keep everyone in at night. This would take care of a good number of predation incidents. It is up to us to be good guardians. Our two little feline hellions are inside only cats, and are only allowed outside leashed and under supervision. We currently live amongst coyotes, cougars, bobcats, bald and golden eagles, owls, and number of other predatory species. But a far greater danger are the roads and disease from other cats. Not to mention, that since they are non-native predators, they have a huge impact on threatened songbird species.
When I was a pup myself, my parents certainly didn’t know any better. All of our cats were outside at all hours. They were hit by cars, taken in by other people, and many simply disappeared. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few were eaten. In fact, our own dog preyed on a litter of three kittens, and nearly killed the mother. Maybe worst of all, in the grand scheme, a few probably added to the stray cat population which is wrecking havoc on the native birds. Losing beloved pets broke my heart every time. It was a harsh lesson that I learned quickly from.
Hopefully you are not as irresponsible as my parents were.
The lines we draw on maps, and our specific concept of property are alien to the wolf.
As a matter of survival, it would be stupid for wolf to pass up on something edible. Why? because wolf does not have the luxury of knowing when a future meal is secure. This may sometimes be your dog or your horse, if you do not offer enough security to prevent predation, but more than likely it will be a coyote or an elk, as coyotes are a prevalent form of competition, and wolf prefers wild meat.
This “vegetarianwolflover” is crazy. The wolf population is out of hand. I would not have a problem if they were killing because they were hungery, but they are not even eating them. They are just killing for the fun of it or “sport of it” . This just isn’t right about the wolf eating the baby and ripped off the milk bag. This is not killing to eat!!
While all animals in the wild must eat, look at how much of the animal is left- they are not hunting to eat, they are hunting to kill!!
LMAO, so lets all move into cages and let the wolf god rule us. Lets just let children go into harms way, Lets just let this predator go unmanaged and decimate his natural food source being Elk and Deer, Lets forget that 165 years ago the wolf had Buffalo and more open range than today, Without managment this wolf program fails 100%. If you really give a darn about the wolf then allow hunts and self protection of property. THEN YOUR WOLF PROGRAM JUST MAY WORK. Allow Humans who also have been here as long as the wolf teach the wolf respect of a superior predator, being MAN. Im never gonna change my lifestyle for a DOG running loose and causing more trouble than its worth.
Please get the facts straight. There are few packs that feed on Buffalo, possibly one in Yellowstone and definitely one in Aberta Canada. They are only able to do so, because of the extremely deep snow, that slows the buffalo and prevents deadly kicks. Cows, also are a difficult take for the wolves.
It amazes me that in my state, which has no eagles, no elk, no bear, no wolves, no otter, no bobcats and no cougars……those who enjoy killing for pleasure have to kill deer because they’re “overpopulated and not as big as they used to be.” (Guess what, we’ve got deer bones from the 17 and 18 hundreds and they’re lots bigger than they used to be…….so nice try…..) I don’t care if hunters kill deer and mount their heads on the wall (what is THAT all about anyway? Some sick excuse for a small penis or what?) I mean, there are plenty of deer, so I don’t have a problem with that. There aren’t plenty of wolves. Never seen one. Never seen a cougar, a bobcat, an otter or an eagle either. I have seen blackbears, but I had to drive 700 miles to do it.
I realize you don’t want to lose your livestock, and I feel your pain. I have horses and to protect them from the maurading neighborhood children who feed them 5 pound bags of apples and sugar……, but never PAY the vet bills, I installed a SEVEN FOOT SOLID VINYL FENCE, electrified on the inside, with signs posted every 5 feet on the outside. I also sunk 2 feet of plasticized 1/2 x 1/2 inch woven wire into the ground to keep MY DOGS IN and their dogs OUT. It cost $32,000.00 for 3.25 acres. I paid $12,000.00 an acre for it. I OWN it and I pay TAXES on it - and I also pay $7.00 a bale to feed my horses. My non - native predator cats - stay in the house 24/7, to protect the few starlings (also non-native) and blackbirds that may fly into my yard.
I’m all for protection of YOUR property, but here’s how you do it. Keep you pets inside. Install 4 rail vinyl or wood fencing with two hotwire at top and 8 inches off the ground. If you’ve got a wolf inside of that (and I know they can get in - shoot it. Fine. BUT DON’T LET YOUR CATTLE, SHEEP, HORSES, GOATS, PIGS, RUN FREE ON MY GOVERNMENT LAND! I only want wolves, elk, buffalo, otter, beaver, antelope, coyotes, and other wildlife, the occasional hunter, hiker, or camper ON MY GOVERNMENT LAND!
GOT THAT! Thank You!
First of all Katherine, you may not be aware of this but we own our grazing allotments and we pay taxes on themas property they are fee interest. We also pay an extra tax in the form of a grazing fee that goes into habitat and water development and schools.
So don’t give me that holier than though attitude and your ridiculous assumptions that ranchers have some kind of freebie deal out here. This is the west and the laws are different than what you live under.
Obviously you have drunk the Koolaid that ranchers have no rights on these lands, let me enlighten you, our ranch had cattle on it and was a working cow operation since 1879 long, long, before it was deemed government land. That is where those rights come from pre-government law recognized in current law. So not only do we own the right to be on this land, we also have the same share of the public toothpick as you do on top of that.
How cute and uninformed, as an urbanite, you seem to think our dogs and such are pets, they are companions yes but they are also stock, hunting and livestock guard dogs some our guardians for our children.
So here’s one for you. Keep your public wolf off my deeded land, Keep it off MY working stock dogs, Keep it off MY waters that I built, improve and maintaine at MY own expence, that I own at the cost of ten thousand dollars an acre foot for 80 acre feet total on MY allotment. I don’t care what your wolves drink but if you have that bad an attitude about my property and are so willing to discount MY rights, perhaps your public wolf should no longer access my water that should shrink his habitat severely.
If you wish we would be happy to send you out some of these mongrel mexican wolves so your habitat can be complete since you obviously need some kind of predator to stop those evil deer hunters. Love the negative stereotyping by the way. How witty of you.
And last but not least, you apparently watch too much TV since you seem to be oblivious that wolves are perfectly capable of killing anything they take a shine to. Of course you think it is hard for a wolf pack to kill a bison or a cow, you have never seen them in action or had to pick up the results of their carnage. Grow up and start reading what is out there on wolves, National Geographic and the Discrovery channel and Animal Planet aren’t the only or even the best resources available.
LMAO, a 2000 pound bison after running for it’s life full speed 3-5 miles is exhausted and easy for the 150 pound wolves to take down. A moose is also 2000 pounds and more athletic than the bison, wolves eat moose to, like there is no tommorow. Deep snow is a good point though, at least your maybe starting to get a clue, All across America, especially out here, we humans live and work, we have roads and fences and towns and ancient migration routes have been cut off, thus elk, deer, moose, bison that used to travel to winter ranges below snow lines dont any more, so the cute cuddly killer for sport fun has more than they can eat since all those species listed above can not run in the deep snow. Thus the wolf packs have an unfair advantage they never had in the past.
Also my state of Idaho had wolves before this nonsense program took off in 1996 and they were original greys, not this hybrid Canadien beast. The government lied, just like they lie about owning the land. This is not a De-Jure government, it is a De-facto government. you need to learn the difference. Its called real research and investigation. Not sitting in front of that propaganda box hooked up to the falsehood feed pipe. Its a miracle your family bloodline survived thru the centuries with out hunting to provide food for the table. Those of us who grew up hunting here for food never took time out for penis comparisons and silly events of that nature, we were to busy surviving. You know that grocery store you love so much, well somebody hunted down all that grub so you could eat, imagine that store closes down and is no longer there for ya, while Im out huntin for meat, roots, plants, seeds, and such, you will be runnin with a mob attempting to steal my harvest, because people like you are really helpless.
Government land… you need to do some looking back.. I can remember seeing signs along the highway that would say… Protect your national forest … what a joke that was and is… you think the government land is yours or ours… Not
The government land /national forest is all but ours anymore. If it was ours or yours wouldnt you get to make some decissions on what took place on it? I bet you have not seen anything as such on any ballot because I have not ever had the oppertunity to ever vote on anything that the government did with the government land or national forest.
I dont know where people get there information on the wolf not killing or eating buffalo, but if you really look back an do it with a good focus, you will see that all the buffalo was killed by our government troops to get rid of the indians… when that happened do you think that just maybe the buffalo could of been a main food source for the wolf? the wolf didnt make it a hundred years ago for a reason. there was alot more sheep an deer an cattle on the land where I live and the wolf didnt make it, and will not make it now unless some one figures out a way to feed them…who is introducing a food source for the wolf? funny how that seems to get over looked, an some of the chosen ones that sit behind a desk all day an dream of the wolf just eating an killing the week an sick animals is the biggest joke there is.
Where are these reintroduction people anyway…? why dont they reintroduce Charles Manson an put about ten of them in all the big Citys that would give all of us small town people a better way of life.
We wouldnt have a bunch of ignorant people telling us what we need or dont need in our own back yards. They would have the same fear at night as we have, living out where the tame hand fed wolves are turned loose to become instantly wild… all the Defendors of Wildlife, The Endangered Spieces Act, and all the other groups of people that are behind this wrong doing with the Spotted Owl and the Wolf dont have anything better to do in life than to mess with other people’s lives an that is so wrong. They sit behind a desk or live in a big City and dont have a clue about true nature, animals become extinct for a reason… but they think they can change nature back to the way it use to be…well they would have to put everything back to the way it use to be not just the Wolf with no food supply.
LMAO, thats a good idea, them Environmentalist invaders better hurry to cause Charlie may go extinct on them real soon, and then they will have wasted another opportunity to harrass some folks. We could call it the Manson ethnic cleansing of your town program. Think I will dial up the Federal De-facto master for a grant.
MY public land! MY public land! Get your animals off MY public land, I pay taxes on it! yada, yada yada.
Kathrine,
Most folks don’t realize that the “public land” issue is largely based on highly debatable history and terminology with confusion promoted by land/control lust by hungry agencies and special interests. It is therefore an extremely difficult situation for anyone to deal with or even talk about reasonably.
1) Until 1976 the legal meaning of “public land” was - land entirely owned by the federal government that was open for settlement and acquisition. settlement. By that time, 1976, more or less all “public land” and accompanying water rights (gained by beneficial use requirements) had already been appropriated through this “open for settlement” encouragement and through longtime historic western title traditions further established.
2) Grazing allotments are bought and sold, passing the property interests to grazing easements, waters, and accompanying forage on to the next owner, and like any other property, is subject to an estate tax, just like your private property. Public acknowledgement of these historic property interests is stymied by years of obfuscation, intentional misuse of the term by agencies and special interests, all too eagar to claim an ever larger piece of the landscape pie.
3) The federal government retained mineral rights - the dirt and rocks under and around the property interests of the ranchers (DOI), which more or less blanket the west. In 1976 the legal meaning of “public land’ was changed so the term continued with a new definition of land “or interest” in land owned by the federal government”. The original meaning was no longer relevant as the encouraged aquisition of property rights under that meaning already blanketed those lands.
4) Enviro-NGOs and agencies never mention this - that the rancher’s real property interests have historically been upheld by unanimous Supreme Court decisions. The CBD has even been known to quote court cases, lost by ranchers, that had nothing to do with property rights as evidence that these rights do not exist.
5) Land agencies, paid special interest NGO professionals, and paid lobbyists now exert much influence, hiding the true nature of the property rights and interests all to the end of ever more power & land control at the cost of justice. As our country slips from its roots of liberty and individual rights (natural law), so go some recent court rulings based not on historic rights or justice but activist, agenda driven “positive law”, divorced from respect for all intrinsic human rights.
This extremism, blinded and calloused against all the basic liberties and respect due to all humans has intentionally misinformed you of the true nature of public land. The taking of our rights is the next step to the taking of your rights. If this kind of activist mentality is allowed to continue into the future, there will be few exceptions to the victimization, and those will only be the ones who are willing to embrace and assist, not resist, this unpleasant future possibility. A return to honesty, a respect for others, and a friendly dialog coming forth from this is the high road.
So the U.S. Fish and Wildlife is going to have another meeting about bringing more wolves in the area, I cant belive it they are going to have a meeting an dont want to here NO wolf, that is the biggest joke I have herd yet. Have a Meeting an then dictate what people are to say, People need to show up and say what they feel no matter what the Fish and wildlife people think, Its like they want to discourage everyone from comming, an they dont want to here what people really think or have to say, an Maybe the people dont want to continue on with all the meetings when the Fish an wildlife people are going to do what they want any way.
They want to bring I was told 90 more hand fed wolves in to the area, because They are affraid of loosing there jobs due to the fact that alot of the wolves are on the White Mountain Indian Reservation.
Amazes me how all the people think the wolves are wild ha… the wolves see humans an connect that with another free meal because the pen fed wolf has counted on humans its whole life allready but the chosen few of organizations have convinced the average person in to believing that the wolf is wild…and only eats the sick an week animals, what another joke. There isnt enough sick an week animals to feed the coyote, mountain lion, as it is and now, there is the Wolf that is a meat eater like the Mountain lion, the elk have no chance an there is not many deer left anymore. I say feed the Wolf spotted owls there must be lots of spotted owls now that the logging is gone, our forest is all over grown with bursh and wood and is nothing but a fire hazard.
But one thing for sure we have The U.S. Fish and Wildlife, Endangered Speices Act, Defendors of Wildlife, Our Fed. Government, the USFS people to count on for being not to smart.
Greg I am all for reintroducing flesh eating bateria to its native habitat.
I think a few reintroduced termintes to a few greenies homes. After all they do not allow snakes and dangerious predators near their homes so why should we allow them on our property.
vegetarianwolflover has her or his head so far up their !%!, they have no clue what their talking about. For one, wolves kill for sport, I have seen wolves hunt and kill elk and as soon as they make their kill and even if they kill them they just leave and dont even touch it wolves being relisted was the dumbest thing to do.
We could send them a live bobcat in a suit case for christmas, its so much fun to open it too.
Brady,
I know the admin here is always looking for new pictures when you see stuff the wolves are doing. What has happened is many of these people have been mislead and the best way to combat the eco extreme propaganda machine (wow that has a ring to it) is to fight back with photos.
Often the extreme says this stuff does not happen. WolfCrossing and some other sites are so wonderful and posting photos (even trying hard to keep the gore factor down a bit for kids that might be visiting) to help in educating people as to the reality of what wolves do and how they kill.
Some of these people are to bought into the propaganda and the wolf worship cult to ever be deprogrammed…and they are a very small minority. These are the people that beleave the goverment put mange out there to harm the wolves. LOL.
The majority are people that have been swayed thinking they are doing good by sending some organization money for stickers to help animals and they do not understand the effects this has in the long run. THey do not understand that cow elk are having their fetus eaten out and left to die or that wolves spred terrible diseases. Diseases that have been nearly wiped out in the last 50 years but are now comming back due to the wolf program.
They beleive what they are told and the cuties pictures are for an emotional response.
So this is for everyone,
Carry your digital cameria often and send the admin here the photos.
If you have a story you want to write about stuff you are seeing in your area that the wolves are doing send that in too. It would be great to have more people writing for the site. Your story does not have to be long even a paragraph is fine. Often a picture says all that needs to be said.
Just a few ideas
Greg you could write an story about the absuritity of the ecoextreme.
Gregory it would be intresting to hear what you think after you attend the meetings.
Brady some deatails on wolf behavior in your area and what you see when you are out.
Im working on that now, Ive got a lot of data Im working thru and then I will post it on the Idaho blog, I will let the administration here know when its up. Im also trying to get every body to go out with their camera’s, Im doing just that, Im just waiting on some snow, then its easy to track wild game and the wolves. After seeing the Robert Maughan blog, and him being from Pocatello Idaho, I realized I must start a web site here with wolf facts and truth as well. Time to swing back and hard.
Sister Flash I dont know if im going to make it to the meetings but I will try to make a meeting, I am so busy with work an its that time of the year where everyone wants of Christmas.
Greg it is great that you are working on a blog too. More people need to see the carnage to really see what is going on. I do beleive once people see how their money is being spent and the damage they will not support the program.
Gregory…dont you think is was by plan that these meeting were setup and a far driving distance and during a busy time of year for a reason? I think it was by plan they want to keep the hard working busy people out and the wolf groupies will be there becuase their whole life is around the wolf worship cult.
Questions-
As I read the posts here I try not be ignorant, I have a deep respect for what you are doing Sister Flash, Gregory Scott, Greg Farber and Brady From MT and I sincerely ask you-
Where are you all from? (just a general idea)
Why should wolves be controlled?
In what ways have the wolves personally impacted your lifestyle?
What changes have you made to compensate for the new idea of wolves?
If they are to be controlled which way would be best?
What do you think about hunting the wolves?
I know some of you have answered these questions already but I would greatly appreciate a response to the other questions!
PS> A semi-morbid idea I just had: give them STD’s…
I am from the west part of New Mexico, you ask why should wolves be controlled ? the wolf that they are dumping in AZ/NM is not even the same wolf they call it reintroducing…but wouldnt the same breed of wolf have to be reintroduced ? the wolf become extinct for a reason just like the Grizzly bear that use to roam this country an there isnt enough room for the Grizzly bear, or the Wolf , there isnt no predator control to speak of anymore, no poison is put out for the predator’s to keep them thinned down, there is no deer left here anymore, the grops that think they can bring back something that is a big a meat eater like the wolf is insane, they just think the wolf will only eat the sick an lame, is a joke in its self, the wolf they are pen feeding isnt affraid of humans which makes it worse. the groups need to figure out a food source for the wolf or they wont make it.
How has the wolf impacted my personal life style…
when the ranchers are affected and shut down there cattle operations everyone around looses out of the revenue that would be spent in surrounding towns, when out hunting the wolf will affect alot of hunters from not comming back to hunt, that will hurt town revenue.
I could go on and on and on…what good would it do?
I have allready made these same statments through out wolf tracks comments, the wolf should of never been dumped or reintroduced as they call it ……… it become extinct for a reason.
Your semi morbid idea of giving the wolf STD is that Sexually Transmitted Desease ? I guess you could get the U.S. Fish and Wildlife an the Defendors of Wildlife, the Endangered Speices Act people/organizations all the people that decided what was best for the people out west, to go out and give the wolf your STD sounds like the best idea I have herd, these organizations would be good at doing that, these groups are professionals at screwing things up. just to get there 20yr pensions in. I would like a picture of them spreading the STD on the wolves, the wolf could give them in turn, rabbies, the plauge, wastings desease.
Im living near the Sawtooth Wilderness in Idaho. I raised a wolf from six weeks till he was 14 years. I was watching 3 packs in Idaho prior to 1996. In the Stanely basin, The Bear river water shed, and the Red Mountain Area near bear valley. They were genuine natve grey wolves, last time I saw them was 1999, I suspect the transplant wolves killed them off. This really made me angry, and when government lies to us I really get angry. They lied about this wolf programn and proceeded with it before all the scientific data was conclusive, because the environmental groups use the courts to force federal management agencies like the FWS to adopt the economic elite funded research as ” best available science” through these lawsuits and appeals federal management agencies are forced to act on issues before their own scientific studies are complete. Wolves have changed the way I hike and ride my horses in the forest, I no longer picket my pack strings and go hiking for hours while they are alone in camp, I sleep in the day and stay awake at night because Im being prey tested while deep into the Wilderness. Also the habitat is great in Idaho, and the elk are being destroyed. We need to hunt the wolf to teach them respect for the human predator, and we need to stop them from hanging around peoples homes and towns, because this type of activity is dangerous. environmentalism is being used to destroy the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, it also was used by Lenin and Trotsky prior to the Bolshevick Revolution, where eventually over 100 million ranchers and farmers living in rural Russia were first disarmed of their fire arms and then killed by soldiers. thru out history environmentalism has lead to genocide, Its always about the land.
I feel that someday there is going to be something that is going to spark the American people into saying we have had enough and do away with the U.S. Fed. Gov. the FWS, Def. of Wildlife, Endangerd Spieces Act… and all the people that allowed these organizations to be is flat wrong, they shouldnot have the amount of controll on us US citizens, they should have to bring it to a ballot and vote as to how things should or shouldnt be. Not just let these organizations just make laws …. I still remember the sign and all the posters that use to say (Protect Your National Forest) what a bunch of bullsh-t, I dont know all the legal ways to get things started nor do I have the time to do alot of promoting the way I think at the time. But I am sick an tired of the way things are and the way things have been done in the last 30 yrs, I wonder how long it will be before there is going to be a revolution? this crap cant keep going the way it is.
If the American populance is fooled into handing over their firearms it will be a genocide, just like the forgotten 100 plus million murdered in Russia thanks to Lenin, Trotsky, and their New York Banker Financier Jacob Schiff, who by the way has a great grandson recently married to none other than Al Gores daughter. And I would study the famous Al Gore, “Hammer Award”, awarded by Gore every year to a good government recipient for good government. Mr. Hammer being a supporter of Al Gores father, was another well known Communist. Funny how Al is the Environmentalists god. And the guy is a Buffoon.
Greg (both of you) I feel that the wolves are not the real issue at hand. Its the dang “animal rights activists” that believe nothing should be hunted. the real issue behind that is hunting and behind hunting is owning guns. they look at these things that constantly go on like the Nebraska mall shooting as a result of gun ownership. they know that hunters own the guns in this nation and I think WE do it responsibly. I honestly believe these wolves were reintroduced to knock off hunters and then gun owners. The problem is just like anything that is illegal it will only make these guns more wanted and irresponsible people (by irresponsible I mean having a disposition to go against the laws) in control of guns.
I dont hate the wolves. I just want to reintroduce them into these peoples who’s idea it was to do so in there backyards. then after their dogs and cats and then kids get attacked they might then realize they have reintroduced a menace.
Eyemzick;
Agreed, the agenda includes stopping all hunts, and even to deny access of National Lands eventually. I have researched these lone nut shootings over the years, in fact since Lee Oswald was named a lone nut shooter. I have found that most of these shooting events have in fact been orchestrated via mindcontrol measures. Virginia Tech was in fact one such event. I have put together a 200+ file of documents with enough circumstantial evidence to point directly to DARPA, which is in fact located in the state of Virginia. This event backfired and the enemy of this Republic has backed off on the anti-gun agenda at the moment, at least publically. Virginia Tech also is a known CIA recruiting ground. Keep in mind Americans are put in prison with much less circumstantial evidence required to convict. So yes the environmental agenda is to bring forth their global land grab agendas, open up the re-wilding plans of America, and force rural freedom loving Americans to move into designated citys and or towns. Agenda 21 proves this out. We are in a war of attrition by the federal government against its own populance, the wolf program being one of thousands of tools being used to attain those goals. The U.N. is in fact in control of our Forest Service, DEA, FDA, FWS, and other agencys. The list is endless, I can go on forever, and provide documents to prove it. Americans need to pay attention and Right now.
I herd at the wolf meeting in Alpine AZ there was only about a half dozen people there an there was a lady that got after the USF&W and the US Forest service…
The meeting was over the USFWs wanting to bring 90 bad wolves back to the area AZ/NM border and release them, they were all ready problem wolves….. go figure a meeting that was to be for the wolf, they didnt want to here about anti wolf…. so who would show up for that .. there isnt many people that live around here that is for the wolf program… How did they get the wolf in here ? I never seen a ballot to vote for the wolf at all. It just got passed that must of been when Bill Clinton was taking care of business in the oral room, and got caught and was black mailed in to passing this wrong doing of introducing the wolf.
How long ? and what is it going to take to have a National wolf hunt ?
I wrote Brian Millsap that was on the channel 13 news from the USFWs a nice email….I wasnt impressed with this clown at all… he has not emailed me back yet… I was not for the wolf go figure.. lol
You can imagine from all my comments on here what it was I wrote about…
sometimes I want to be amazed when I read things like this. sometimes I load my gun and go target practicing. Other times I just write back and say “ditto.”
[…] Hunters Special Report […]
Interesting article.
But we hunt and kill for sport, so what are you people trying to say here? We hunt for things besides food all the time, kill for no reason but the simple please of having brought down a huge bear or a moose with a huge rack. We hunt for trophies and these wolves are hunting just like we do. So who is to blame here?
The reintroduction of wolves is very important. Without them, than the elk populations would soar. When the wolves where gone there where plenty of complications. The elk ate EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING. I don’t recall exactly what happened, but something about the elk eating everything effected the beaver population.
Without the wolves other things are effected and that is a fact. I don’t understand people who don’t want wolves in the world whatsoever. Wolves are a important link in the food chain. Without them, the thing would come crashing down on our heads.
wild heart… the way I see what you are saying… we hunt and kill for sport you say… well my sport is when I kill a game animal I use the antlers and cape for a mount and the meat we eat.
The wolf isnt the same wolf that was here before it is a hybred wolf cross with another yard dog… and it kills for the fun and no body can control how many times it will kill in a week and it doesnt eat all the animals it kills, for one thing.
its not a reintroduction when its not the same wolf, and aparently you dont Ranch/have livestock or pets that the wolf eats, The wolf that was here prior was wild an afraid of humans… the wolf they are bringing back isnt afraid of humans the wolf has counted on humans to food for a very long time while it was in pens before ever seeing wild animals. when the wolf here sees civialization it sees a free easy meal.
We dont need wolves to control the elk population that is the game and fish departments job.
What is the wolf going to eat when there main diet of elk is gone? there isnt any deer left here along the az/nm borders as it is.
The elk in AZ and NM has been transplanted so the wolf that use to be here had no elk to eat, there was buffalo, deer, cattle, sheep in large numbers the calvery killed the buffalo to get rid of the Indians food as I recall. I look at it like this the wolf become extinct for a reason, if it was the humans that got rid of the wolf, why did the coyote, mountain lions make it with out becoming extinct they are all predators, do you think maybe the plauge or rabies or some other desease had something to do with it?
you say the wolf is an important part of the food chain !!! I dont feel that way at all… the food chain was doing just fine the way it was going with the coyote, bear, mt lion we didnt need a killing machine like the wolf,and if the ignorant people that is behind the wolf programs dont get a food sorce figured out the wolf wont make it now either, the ranchers are all but gone on the az/nm borders there is no sheep or mule deer left for the wolf to eat like there was when the wolf was here a 100 yrs ago.
the report I herd is that if the elk herds keep declining there wont be enough elk to have a hunt in 5yrs… what is the wolf going to eat then? when they are out of food there comming to town for a free meal, I wonder if the US fish and wildlife will go to Mc Donalds and get them big mac’s for a meal deal? The way life really is living along the AZ/NM border. Just how important is the Beaver,Spotted owl, and all the other off the wall animals the Endangered Spieces act has done to our way of life an economy with no logging is flat WRONG. and now the wolf … a killing machine like that out in the forest with a free reign is Wrong and the wolf is going to make a very bad dent in the eco system and it isnt going to be a good out come.
I have hunted for over 40 years. I hunt for food if I see a nice buck I take it but 90% of the time I take the first legal deer I see. Many people depend on putting in the winter meat of elk and deer especially with the high heating cost. Let us look at the animal rights and environmentalist. We have high fuel and heating cost thanks to the environmentalist stopping oil drilling, oil refinery, etc. Now the dumb idea of the wolf first they start with a lie there has never been a documented wolf attack in North America read the pages here wolves kill and eat people it is a proven fact. Now we protect the poor wolf and they are everything that the animal rights first told us were fairy tales. The only fairy tales are all from the wolf lovers sports killing check read the wolf diaries on this site. Wiping out the elk and deer check in fact the animal rights folks are already talking about banning hunting to increase the wolf population. Another lie exposed how the perfect fluffy wolf would benefit hunters. Now wolves only kill some livestock what kind of joke is that sure is easy to watch other people get forced out of business. But I guess when you are pro wolf you hate people and think it is cool to force people to go bankrupt. How about you pro wolf people put your money where your mouth is and buy your own land fence your precious wolf in it and keep it off our public land. Why don’t you pro wolf people really do something good for a change? Oh that right you have most of the public brainwashed into believing your lies and the money keeps rolling in billions of dollars. Save the planet, save the wolf, just send us money we will take your money and do something besides spending 60% of fund raising for next year, 30% suing the world and 10% paying all your wolf lovers to sit on your rear and cruise the web to tell everyone how great the wolf is. Who cares if you ruined the outdoors as long as your billions keep coming in you wolf lovers make me sick. All you care about is your job collecting billions from the public.
I just typed a long comment an it wouldnt post this is very discouaging. kind of like a waste of my time…
I live in the mountains of Idaho, not by them in them, have my entire life, I have hunted fished hiked biked rode my horses thru over and around the Frank Church, The Sawtooth, The Selway, and even Wyomings Wind River Range, Also the East side of Yellow Stone from Cody to Dubois, out side the park, Im still trying to find Habitat which has been destroyed by ELK. In 39 years of living in these mountains I still have not proved one environmentalist lie to be true. Yes, I have some big racks here, so what, I ate the body that was under it, used the skins to warm my self with. I also shot Cows and does for food as well, I ate them mind you, I did not leave them lying about for photo ops like wolfie does. I did not slice and dice and leave them for coyotes and mice like wolfie does. just for fun while training his her young. The wolf will run out of food soon, then the wolf will come to town looking for a meal, first its the dogs, then cattle and sheep, then horses, then children and unsuspecting adults. The wolf can stay, but the wolf better stop running unchecked and out of balance with that which supports him, since the wolf is not intelligent enough to manage hisself people better do it for him and soon, or yes this preconcieved notion of fools supporting not supporting wolf hunting to keep them in check, in balance, in harmony with his food and other surroundings will blow up in those fools face, oh gee, it already is, of course this is where the fools lie and backpeddle, its your guys fault my program failed not mine. LMAO.
When will Americans say we have had enough ? What is it going to take ? how long is it going to take ?
I am disgusted / apauled how the US Fish and Wildlife, US Forest Service, Our Game and Fish Departments, our Federal Government, have taken care of business at all…. Amazing how they have gotten away with all the things they have done from the spotted owl, to the Wolf, Spinedaced minnow to the frogs to the grouse in Wy.
It seems like all the people and organizations that could do something about these wrong and obserd doings are afraid to stand up to them. Is it because of the money backing they have ? it is wrong for the American’s not to have a vote on what they do…
Why isnt our US Forest service and Game and fish depts self funded? I bet they would be be cooking wolf for dinner, spotted owls for breakfast and buying ranchers cattle to put on Fed and State land… logging would be back in a instant. They would be feeding the frogs and minnows to the Enviros.
Amazing how the US Forest service use to have to scale (measure) timber for resale, and take care of the grazing rights, and was done with just a few people, now there yards are full of trucks just sitting 9 months out of the year, just to have a few people ride around on fire patrol, Some of the biggest forest fires were started with in there own employees, and there offices are full of people/employees and for what they dont measure timber or wory about grazing rights… WHAT DO THEY DO? WHY ARE WE PAYING THEM A ANNUAL SALARY FOR?
ok I have said enough….
MY TWO CENTS
When will Americans say we have had enough ? What is it going to take ? how long is it going to take ?
I am disgusted / apauled how the US Fish and Wildlife, US Forest Service, Our Game and Fish Departments, our Federal Government, have taken care of business at all…. Amazing how they have gotten away with all the things they have done from the spotted owl, to the Wolf, Spinedaced minnow to the frogs to the grouse in Wy.
It seems like all the people and organizations that could do something about these wrong and obserd doings are afraid to stand up to them. Is it because of the money backing they have ? it is wrong for the American’s not to have a vote on what they do…
Why isnt our US Forest service and Game and fish depts self funded? I bet they would be be cooking wolf for dinner, spotted owls for breakfast and buying ranchers cattle to put on Fed and State land… logging would be back in a instant. They would be feeding the frogs and minnows to the Enviros.
Amazing how the US Forest service use to have to scale (measure) timber for resale, and take care of the grazing rights, and was done with just a few people, now there yards are full of trucks just sitting 9 months out of the year, just to have a few people ride around on fire patrol, Some of the biggest forest fires were started with in there own employees, and there offices are full of people/employees and for what ? they dont measure timber, not many grazing permits to speak of left,… WHAT DO THEY DO? WHY ARE WE PAYING THEM A ANNUAL SALARY FOR?
ok I have said enough….
It is not you land, it was never your land, we dont own the Earth, you are fools to think you do. They have as much right to live as we do - mabye even more, after all, i dont see a pop of 6.5 wolves, do I? WE are the porblem, not them, if you are going to live where they do, YOU need to be the one who prepares for it, wolves are smart, but they cannot understand english, and whiping them out isnt the answer.
As for killing for sport: so what? they kill what, 10 extra a year? people kill ummm, the numbers are so large for so many countries i am not going to bother adding them up, but it is in the millions.
The REAL reason the deer pop is down is humans: if we stopped hunting the populations would balance, like before we screwed everything up, like i have said, wolves arent the problem we are, after all i dont see them waving nukes around.
Wolves are natural, we arent, we shouldnt exist in all right, we got lucky, wolves dont attack people, and rarely livestock, and guess why they attack dogs: they think dogs are a threat, because dogs are a sub-species of wolves, the oen reason they would kill a pet is to protect their turf, which is exactly why you are asking to get to kill them, so, by your standards, they should get to kill any creature they see because it is on “their” land, im sorry, but thats not the way the world works.
Wolves do attack people and even kill people. You have been misled Chris. But if you do not believe that come here and camp. Wolves often attack livestock and pets.
But since you think animals have more rights than people I say flesh eating bacteria is endangered in your state of NC.
Bacteria are an animal and rarely seen in NC but since it is there it should have rights. The number of people it has killed in the lower 48 has not even been recorded lately so it must be 0 and no livestock losses. So I say we reintroduce it after all it is natural and has more rights than humans…heck maybe we should even let wolves and bacteria pay taxes and vote…since Chris things they own the land.
Humans are part of the ecosystem as you admit with the effects of hunting then you say they are not natural. We are natural and part of the ecosystem good or bad. Here most of us have solar and garden organic and do not commute much like some city dwellers commuting 30 or more minutes in cars. Our footprint on the earth here is low…your footprint is much higher yet you choose to state how it is ok for wolves to be in my yard. So I say your yard. Endangered termites, flesh eating bacteria and even wolves.
Why not put your yard and home on the list. We can put wolves in your yard and see how you coexist. This is what you are asking of us. Let’s see how you do.
The real reason the deer population is down is because they are being slaughtered and spree killed by wolves just like the elk. Spree killed does and cow elk means less babies for the future..do the math. Wolves were know to die out after killing off all the snow shoe hair and then seals on Eisner Island.
Read some history and think about your impact on the environment. Your woofer beliefs are very misled.
Rabies and wasting diseases and other things are now rampant and spread by wolves. You would be ok with wasting diseases and rabies in your yard right? Just a natural part of the environment so must be good and ok right.
One person being attacked is too many. One horse, one cow, one dog, one child is too many.
We should all just toss our lifestyles and ubringing in the trash can, no more natural hunting and harvesting our own meat, no more fishing, no more butchering and rapping the meat ourselves for future meals, no more working in the garden during personal hours away from work so as to get the satisfaction of growing our own vegy’s. No more rural free independence and thought, no more raising cows, pigs, horses. No more camping out for days even weeks and enjoying some freedom called solitude. Screw all that. We should move into the city, elbow to elbow, stand in lines, go to circle jerk races and honor them like some kind of god. Eat packaged and preservative packed foods, get cancer, let some doctor inject chemicals into us. Let some government controlled news-out-let indoctrinate our minds with bunkum science. Let the government controlled education system turn us and our offspring into a crowd of submissive whiner wimps. Let some animal be our god, kinda like the SIRIUS EGYPTIAN DOG GOD NETWORK. Let the jungle be rewilded and wait for our future plate of humble-pie from some subserviant teaching master. Finally got your minds in my palm. I knew I should not have turned down that factory job building nukes to save my town with from those rural terrorist enemys of slavery. I wanna chain-link fence too, and a radio collar.
If a pack of Labradors or Sheperds was out there killing elk and deer and wasting them like the politically correct wild dog called wolf then FWS would do their job and stop it. If they are sniffing the trash can across town the city dogcatcher is after them. Hmmm…….but the wild doggy project, oh excuse me, those wolves can run rampant all over the place cause its NATURAL. Hmmm….. seems to me it is NATURAL to shoot at them too, when on my property damaging it, or coming after me. Sorry, Im not gonna lay down in my pasture and let your project doggy eat me alive, sorry, NO SUBMISSIVE training was entered into my computer bank, errr my MIND that I use every day. Try again later maybe, submissive mindcontrol failed on this subject…..ME.
Great job Greg you are right that if this was a differnent canine there would not be any problem. There is so much myth and propaganda saying these wolves are shy and wild. Well if that is so why are these wolves at our homes.
Then the agencys and desperate magazine editors have to toss how claims of people bating wolves. What with my 3 legged house dog that sleeping on the front porch on a sunny day.
Great work, Greg. I thought you all should be aware of federal legislation - H.R. 3663 - introduced by liberal California Congressman George Miller. His bill would ban Alaska’s predator control program at a time when wolves on reeking havoc on Alaskan’s ability to put food on the table — and killing and eating their dogs. The bill would set a PRECEDENT FOR FEDERAL JURISDICTION OVER STATE WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT.
DON YOUNG (R-AK) IS LEADING THE OPPOSITION — AND HE’S MAKING SOME HEADWAY.
CHECK OUT THE FOLLOWING LINKS - AND LET OTHERS KNOW ABOUT MILLER’S BILL. THIS MUST BE STOPPED.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/01/reps_young_and_miller_in_dog_f.html (note the comment i posted for the full story)
http://www.nationalcenter.org/2008/01/wolf-protecting-drilling-opponent-rep.html
http://thewesterner.blogspot.com/2008/01/dear-colleague-letter-wolves-sent.html
http://gov.state.ak.us/print_news.php?id=640
And this story that just hit: (I don’t think Mr. Miller and Defenders of Wildlife are going to like this)…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324106,00.html
Those are good links, thanks. I noticed the replys on the first link and read them all, I enjoyed them, Also I agree with the reply concerning the impact on people due to wolves, which I believe is the true intent and purpose of loosing wolves in the lower 48, and allowing for their protection in Alaska, Heres why;
1. Damage ranchers and farmers forcing them out of business, even selling their lands. Notice who rushes in to purchase those lands when the choice to sell is made.
2. Loose the perfect killing machine out upon the forests, Of course decimation of wild game will occur, a valuable and sustainable food source for people is eventually gone.
3. You citizens will no longer need your guns as hunting has been banned due to human over-use of forest lands from hunting, sno-machines, and motorbikes.
Blaine county Idaho is trying to close down 160,000 acres of BLM land right now from sno-machines, claiming they are harming wildlife. This of course is the first step, next it will be 160 million acres. Funny how the last 70+ years our game animals have thrived and survived with no problems. Now after 12 years of wolves decimating our herds, it is WE HUMANS who use the forest lands who are to be blamed and punished.
These morons even want dipers on my stock while riding on those lands soon as well, guess after 39 years of saddle tramping about my horse was damaging the eco system I rode thru, funny I didnt notice it.
Ive decided it really is a mad mad mad mad world. All I can say is my powder is dry and Im diggin in, we are surrounded, Time to get dog mean and nasty.
I had to laugh at Chris when the pro wolf side talks about the wolf it our public land but when a Hunter replies back oh no no one owns the land. Typical. Greg, Sisterflash, Carbiou Steak you all have done a great job. It is a lie that the wolves balance nature. Read the old Native American writing and I find they hunted, trapped, and denned wolves. Yes Denned wolves killing the pups. The pro wolf side is losing numbers every day they are really a tiny percentage of Americans the majority are waking up to all the lies, fairy tales and misconception put out by the pro wolf side. Nov 19 1891 MN. 3 children were killed and eaten by a pack of wolves. I guess no pro wolf brainwashed person was around back then because the next day the Real Americans had a huge wolf hunt. Imagine that real Americans with a backbone killed wolves to protect children. How did that happen? Real Americans shoot wolves for the health and safety of the children.
You stupid ignorant humans. We kill for sport too! Most wolves (96.37%) kill their prey to live. Not for sport. But us, we kill so many animals every year and in most cases, it’s not even for food. We kill for the plain fun of it, which to me, is not fun at all. Wolves are magnificent creatures. Why are you boisterous babbling buffoons even making a big deal out of this. If you were going to do the exact same thing to the calf, why is it worse when the wolf does? Us humans, are responsible for global warming. Don’t try to tell me I’m wrong because I have been studying this for years. I know the facts. Wolves are so intelligent. They live and work together all the time. We can’t do that. We even kill each other. We are completely inhumane and totally insane. We are ill minded. We are the problem here. We are responsible for the Earth’s meltdown. I have never heard of a wolf killing a person before but there have probably been a few cases. A FEW. How many animals have we killed? Billions. For fun. Wolves do balance the ecosystem. Just like the rest of the animals on Earth. Except us. The world would be better off without us. Sure, maybe there would be too many cows the first few years but in the long run, things would be way better. If you think we are doing anything right, you are wrong. You are demons. Devils. Evil. Don’t tell me I’m wrong. You don’t know that you are evil, but you are. You don’t think so, but it’s true. Humans are evil. You slaughter innocence.
Alpha Lupine I suggest you drink some carrot juice with a touch of beet and ginger mixed in as well, Hopefully you own a juicer and can use it. This will help calm your overheated liver and kidneys and allow proper self thought patterns to eventually return, turn off the Al Gore movie and stop reading books by Armand Hammer. Please please stop giving wolfie all that unfair credit of being a wonderful ecosystem manager, it is just not so. I must step out side now and shovel the global warming off my porch again, it is five feet deep now another eight inches just landed here, so I must do my part and fight it back from the door. Then I can only hope and pray for your lost mind to someday return to rational thought. Those were wonderful pieces of innocence next to my vegy’s last night, I sure enjoyed em.
How is it that folks in DC and other over populated areas can choose what wildlife and predators I should have in my back yard. Fo that matter why should people be epected to sit back and watch economies die while timber burns. If I could load up several dozen wolves and a few griz and turn them loose on the streets of DC, I would. It is amusing to watch the green strategies of deceit and terrorism to acheive filling our hills with wolves, burned timber, and grizly. The fact is there is less area for wolves. Elk and deer are in concentrated areas. Wolf populations will not follow the histori paths the scientist studied and will not be the same as in other areas(Canada Alaska). The population of wolves in Montana is too high. Not only are the Elk and Deer herds suffering, but the Mountana Loin, Coyote and other predators are suffering. Coyotes are nearly in town now as the wolves have displaced them from their normal range. It’s simple let the hunters and FWP manage the population.
Oh and Katherine, shove your petty vet bills, you have no clue what a wolf would do to your lawn ornaments. You can keep your plastic fences and orange spray paint, we tend to go for a more scenic less petty-jackass look out here. We try to treat our neighbors well, and help their kids learn to respect others and their property.
For those of you working on putting the wolfe population in check thanks for your efforts. Maybie some day we can find a way to cut the grants and funding for th non working class who have nothing better to do that try stuffing wolves and grizlies up the *%% of everyone else. Heres a thought if you have never seen a wolfe in the wild get off your couch and go hiking. Yellowstone is not a zoo it is onlyfenced near the pivate propety, and roads to keep idiots from driving offroad. The wolves are wild, not zoo animals, they can go wherever they choose. If you think wolves are not going to be a problem in the urban interface wait til they run out of food. Just as their pint size cousin the Coyote will grab a small dog, cat, or kid in California wolves will do the same.
I was saddened to discover the second of orphaned twin moose killed by my driveway yesterday. We watched them grow all summer and really enjoyed seeing them in our pond. When fall came they disapeared for a while. At chrismas I took my grand daughter, Chelsea snow shoeing behind the house. We found the mother moose hamstrung and unable get up and move. The calves were nowhere to be found. I agonized all that night and decided to go back in the morning to end her suffering. Kind of tough to explain to a ten year old why this happened. Momma was dead. After looking around a bit I found one of the calves with the rear end eaten out. It was plain to see the calf was eaten alive. The little bull drug himself around in about a fifty yard square area while two wolves ate his rectum out.
We have been seeing a lot of wolf sign about everywhere we go and I wonder just how many we have.
I wish people who love wolves could see firsthand what I got to “share” with my grand daughter. They put wolves here and we have to deal with the problem as we see fit. The lady with the “fancy”horse fence and the veggie nutjob can’t understand what we face here.
By the way the carcasses were never fed upon by the wolves that killed them.
SisterFlash, The word compassion is a funny choice for someone talking about killing north america’s foremost endangered species. I had really hoped that Americans had become more educated about matters dealing with wildlife in our own country. But it seems to much to ask for someone to know what their talking about before they open their mouth. These wolves were here for centuries before the european mass imigration to the america’s wherein angry townsfolk began hunting this beautiful creature because it preyed on the same lifestock that we slaughter everyday for yours and my consumption. The wolf isnt guilty of anything but living the life its lived for centuries, if you have a problem with nature and its happenings please feel free to ignore websites having to deal with the subject. Next time you feel the need to tell someone off on a matter you know nothing about at least you the proper word choice. I feel that the word ignorence would be better suited in your case. Have a nice day!
Sister Flash will not be ignoring this website. She is one of our administrators. She is an administrator becuase she has had wolf experience. She was pro-wolf before her wolf experience. She is far from ignorant. She is also a very compassionate person and does not own livestock for purposes of economics.
What she and we all have a problem with, is management promoting habituation, depredation and non wild behavior. This is not nature or natural behavior in our opinion. This has become the method in certain wolf programs becuase there are people who are ignorant who don’t believe it is possible.
An animal is beautiful does that justify letting it destroy and endanger unnecessarily becuase some people believe it’s beauty is enough to spare it from management? That displays not only ignorance in my opinion but bias and lack of forsight for the survival of other animals who may not be quite as beautiful.
” North America’s foremost endangered species” ? ? ? LOL. Let me see, In my home state we had wolves already. I watched them from 1972 up until 1998, then the non-native Canadien wolf dumped out in my home state killed them out. Also in 1995 this non-native long legged wolf from Canada was far from being ” Extinct” with 60,000 cousins roaming Canada. Nature is a wonderful thing, I got a problem with people believing lies and preconcieved science and utter bunkum nonsense mouthing off at people who took the time to seek some TRUTH for themselves, unlike those who started sucking up and buying into PRETTY fairy tales about their beautiful wolf. In my opinion elk and deer are far more beautiful than wolves, and they don’t come stand in my yard drooling over me and my horses. You think you know about nature, I didnt see you out counting elk and deer this winter, I saw you ” Gray wolf pack” slaughtering them and not even eating them. I used too be for the wolf program too, until I learned I was being lied too about the facts and evidence used too establish it. America has become a sad place when “Americans” hide behind screen names and spread the lies of others whom only want my land and my liberty. Brilliant.
My appologies to your administration and I can understand why a bad experience would shift ones view of such a magnificent creature, be that as it may we stand on different sides of the river when it comes to our oppinions on wolves. I dont feel that any animal should be hunted so close to extinction by humankind based off of nothing but misdirected fear and anxiety towards a creature that has inhabited our current home for hundreds of thousands of years longer than we ourselves have. I dont ask for you to accept my beliefs on this matter nor do I care if you oppose them. Although I do feel that I should appologise for a few harsh statements earlier. Sister Flash I do not have anything against you or your beliefs and I’m thankful that you have taken the time to establish a website where I can argue my case with people who share similar if opposite views from my own. I hope I didnt upset you too much.
Greg, I was referring to the “nubilus canis lupus” known by many as the gray wolf or “timber” wolf. If you do any kind of research (by this I mean real research in a library, and not the point, click and read what some angry 15 year old wrote in a report for school that they later turned into a website) you’ll take notice that their population has decreased by numbers in the hundreds of thousands in the past century. Also that they did not begin to prey on livestock as a primary source until their pack structures were destroyed throughout the 20th century. Even in those later cases the mass slaughter of livestock contributed to less than 25 wolves throughout the U.S. these were cases where the wolves pack had been brutally killed by government hired workes. Many believed (and still do) that the mass killings were a sign or revenge for the murder of the wolf’s pack mates. Also if you read about this you will find that we as humans are not alone at the top of the food chain, as is we share it with the wolf. If you consider how many animals are killed everyday to fuel our habbits, its a drop in the bucket compared to what the wolves take. As for the mass killings, a wolf is a highly intelligent species, some even venture to call them “land sharks” in the sense that in their world they are super killing machines. Nonetheless they will stalk their prey for some time before the attack. If the prey shows any sign of giving a fight or even giving signs of interspecies respect the wolf would pass on to a more vulnerable prey item. Only in the case where an animal (or human) exhibits pure fear in the face of a wolf will it attack. If you have lost livestock I am sorry, but I cant blame the wolf for taking an easy meal. If that is the case for you the only advice I could offer would be to move to a state where you would’nt have to worry about the threat of a wolf or a pack taking you property. I mean no hostilities in anything said above and I post this purely to exhibit and defend my way of thinking.
Greg, I was referring to the “nubilus canis lupus” known by many as the gray wolf or “timber” wolf. If you do any kind of research (by this I mean real research in a library, and not the point, click and read what some angry 15 year old wrote in a report for school that they later turned into a website) you’ll take notice that their population has decreased by numbers in the hundreds of thousands in the past century. Also that they did not begin to prey on livestock as a primary source until their pack structures were destroyed throughout the 20th century. Even in those later cases the mass slaughter of livestock contributed to less than 25 wolves throughout the U.S. these were cases where the wolves pack had been brutally killed by government hired workers. Many believed (and still do) that the mass killings were a sign or revenge for the murder of the wolf’s pack mates. Also if you read about this you will find that we as humans are not alone at the top of the food chain, as is we share it with the wolf. If you consider how many animals are killed everyday to fuel our habbits, its a drop in the bucket compared to what the wolves take. As for the mass killings, a wolf is a highly intelligent species, some even venture to call them “land sharks” in the sense that in their world they are super killing machines. Nonetheless they will stalk their prey for some time before the attack. If the prey shows any sign of giving a fight or even giving signs of interspecies respect the wolf would pass on to a more vulnerable prey item. Only in the case where an animal (or human) exhibits pure fear in the face of a wolf will it attack. If you have lost livestock I am sorry, but I cant blame the wolf for taking an easy meal. If that is the case for you the only advice I could offer would be to move to a state where you would’nt have to worry about the threat of a wolf or a pack taking you property. I mean no hostilities in anything said above and I post this purely to exhibit and defend my way of thinking.
The wolf is being used as a tool too ruin Public Lands and private property rights by men. I’m well aware of the Gray wolf other wise known as the Timber wolf. I watched such a pack from 1972 till 1998 where upon they were killed out by the non-native Canadien wolf. I am not against wolves, I am against false information, lies and deceptions of humans, I am against the lies of endangered species as well. The gray Timber wolf is doing fine in many North Eastern States, and even in parts of Canada. I wish Idaho had the Gray Timber wolf versus the non-native Canadien wolf dropped off up here. I live in my personal Library while at home. As far as reading some 15 year olds blog somewhere, I will leave that too you. I can tell you this, Idaho had 200,000 elk in 1995, Idaho now has less than 25,000 elk in 2008. And the Deer population is worse. Idaho has been a hunting state for 100 years. So do not waste my time blaming Winters, disease, or hunters. It is improper management in all area’s of this Wolf program Nation Wide, being prompted by big money, and their big lawyers, whom control FWS. And anti-hunting animal rights groups. Funny thing is, this man made program called the wolf re-introduction program has caused the mass killing of other wild species in our forests. Seems animal rights people forgot about those other creatures. Funny how you people always suggest the same thing to us people, sell out and move some where safer. NOT A CHANCE. Im gonna stay right here and KILL wolves.
The wolf pack is a “family” mantra is being used now, though partly true all species the wolf eats behave in the very same group family wild species tradition themselves. In fact Deer and Elk are more territorial than the wolf pack are. In the wolf packs around the world the Dominant male does all the breeding of all the females in the pack. Once other adults of the pack reach a certain age then they are forced out too go build their own life and pack. Elk behave in this very same manner, and so do Deer. Other wild Animals carry on like this as well. So this nonsense of wolves living and behaving as humans do, and we should take note of this is rediculous. I watched the same elk and deer in the same spots for over 30 years and the horn characteristics prove that they maintain a family resemblance themselves. But it is ok if one group of people forces another group of people too watch their lies and destruction while inventing any justification for their agenda they can think up. The destruction in Idaho’s forests is the fault of People letting wolves go uncontrolled now for 12 years.. People like you hiding behind your phoney screen name. I know….its just a safety precaution for in the future so when you and yours are finally proven WRONG, you will not have too except any blame. And finally its funny that those whom hate the human family unit in America would compare the wolf family unit too humans as an excuse too save a few wolves. Humanity living the sexual lifestyles of animals is incorrect behaviour and will result in the decay we are wittnessing around us in our lives. I’m a predator, but I’m nothing like a dog/wolf.
Greg, I’d just like to say that I appriciate that you will argue your point of view with me in a civilized manner. I enjoy a good debate on subjects of this sort, especially with those of us that are passionate in our beliefs. As far as the endangerment being a lie I’m sorry but you are mistaken. Also as I said earlier in the day the gray wolf is America’s foremost endangered species. No other animal in the history of man has met such a ripid decline in population as the gray wolf. North America was home to an estimated 2 million gray wolves before the introduction of european culture into the Americas. Throughout the following 300 years the gray wolf was branded as a monster and hunted almost to exstinction in the 20th century. We now know a population of less than 100,000 in the entirety of north america. If this isnt an endangered species I dont know what is.As for the introduction of a Canadian wolf into Idaho, their are currently only two species of wolf in existance since the mass extiction of the dire wolf 14,000 years ago, the gray wolf and the red wolf remain. The wolf you described sounds like the “lycaon canis lupus” which is another subspecies of the gray wolf, much like the “nubilus” only a bit smaller. In this instance you can most proberably contribute its agression towards a testing of its limits in an unfamiliar area. Or quite possibly the exotic species is merely exhibiting agression because of the loss of its pack mates back in Canada. Well in any instance I’m not trying to act “smart” with any of you nice people. I merely feel that there are alteratives to your agressive feelings towards the gray wolf.
Well I had not seen 160+ pound wolves until the last six years, prior to this at best 120, my own pet wolf of 14 years in the 70s was 115 and male. Still large, yet the larger Canadien is encredible, Ive seen 61/2′ long and 3′ tall wolves, now the packs I observed in Idaho near my home were not this large.
I’m glad your open to discussion, most here at wolf crossing only want for all of us to work together with open minds for the truth, I hope you realize America in 2008 could not handle 2 million wolves of any variety, do you agree? If so then what is a safe population of gray wolves in your opinion ? I certainly do not want them wiped out, I just need too see more proffessional management and control.
It seems to me we have other animals on this world who’s numbers are far worse than 100,000 as a whole, also with human growth and rural area’s all across America, no species of animals can be turned out and be expected to function as they did say, 250 years ago. Ancient migrations of the wolves food sources do not and likely can not be returned to these lands, due too highways, towns, city’s, and owned private property, I mean look we got fences every where.
The elk originally were plains creatures, thus they could see the wolves coming and escape, leaving only the sickened or weak, this is not so today, landlocked elk and deer in 2′ snow are no match for these wolves thus we are seeing the sport kills, wasted kills, and delicacy eating of calves and the unborn fetus. The wolf of history did not have this scenario the wolf of our modern era has, thus it is an unfair advantage and other species of wild animals are paying a heavy toll.
I just watched a wolf, dig up two foxes from their den last week and eat them, I had 14 Coyotes here on my place for the last few years, now I got two, I have seen bear dens dug out and half eaton hybernating bears lying there. The wolf is doing more damage to these eco systems than people realize. This worked in history, my own eyes tell me it is not working now. My family has lived on this land for 145 years, My kin are buried here, you guys are asking a lot in my opinion, telling me to move so the wolf can come home. Judas Priest.
I think you and I had better come too an understanding and soon, because people like me could make this program you support a success story, but not until you folks stop treating us like we are paranoid, wolf hating six toed neanderthals, we are humans and we have a way of life we love, this wolf could be a part of this life with proper hunting and management, Ive seen the couger be balanced for 35 years of my life, and historically for another 35 before me, The same managment practices would work for the wolf.
You start helping the elk and deer, and I will help the wolf, and thats the motto of most I know at home and at this web site. We are supposed to be team in America, looking out for American’s, not trying to destroy their dreams, you got a dream my friend, well so do we. Its called being listened to and offering help when somebody is in trouble, like ” hey I got a wolf problem over here” Ok you say, my fellow American, what is your problem and how may I help you, or how may we help you.
But right now we get accused of being haters, paranoid, stupid, imagining things, or worse. This thing is broken, lets fix it. lets get out an olive branch and bring people together and stop splitting them apart, I can see, and I bet you can too, this will never work until we all work together. The wolf can stay, but we need better management, and now. It is not failing because I live here, and Im sick of hearing that.
Once again I will say, Idaho had 200,000 elk in 1995, In 2008 Idaho has less than 25,000. I do not care what the liar IFG counts say, I know what I see. I can count, I can travel all over Idaho, which is covered in deep snows, those winter ranges are all but empty. It is time too face reality. I’m a hunter, but I do not want too hunt wolves, but I may be forced too. Historical balance will not take place in modern times, or it would have done so, it is not happening.
I want you to understand that i do not by any mean feel that you should have to move from your ancestrail homeland. I was merely stating the fact that if the problem is that bad at the moment a move might be the best thing for you and yours. As far as your wolf problem goes, i agree whole heartedly that something must be done and soon. Like i’ve said and you’ve seen first hand, these wolves are not loveable domesticated housepets they are super killing machines with sences so hightened that you and I can not fathom. I feel instead of having such a large wolf population in such a comgested area (in comparison to the number of wolves) we should disperse the population across our wonderful country. There they can be monitored and studied in a safe environment that can support their hunting habbits. I feel that the biggest problem for you is the lack of the ancient pack system. The boundries the ancient packs established no longer exist and prey items are different. A wolf will always choose an easy meal (an animal that is obviously afraid of it) over an anim,al that poses a potential threat. Only in starvation situation are these lines breached. My only arguement currently is that I feel their is (or can be) a better solution than killing these beautiful animals. If you have a plan for this species thaat can legitamatly work and conserves the life of the animals I support you whole heartedly.